May 12, 2024

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  • Abu Ghraib and Berg

    I have been silent on these issues, but feel the need to make a few observations.

    Starting with the Berg execution: clearly this was a horrific incident and simply underscores who the enemy is. The execution is a clear example of terroristic tactics: the event itself has no military significance, but has the effect of horrifying civilian populations in the hope that they will out pressure on the administration to withdraw from Iraq. Further, it has the effect of making rebuilding difficult, as it increases the general level of fear and uncertainty on the ground in Iraq.

    If anything it reminds us that al Qaeda and their ilk are truly evil.

    I have not seen the video, nor do I plan to do so. Of the things in life that I feel the need to see, the beheading of an innocent civilian isn't one of them. Further, seeing the video would do nothing to affect my opinion of the Iraqi conflict, the administration, al Qaeda or the the War on Terror in general.

    I have not decided how to react to the fact that CBS (indeed, to my knowledge, any US network) is not going to show the video.

    Some are suggesting that the decision is based on the fact that the video would galvanize public opinion in the favor of the administration. To be honest, I find this to be a dubious position, as I think the main motivation is the same reason that I don't want to see the video: it is simply too graphic an image. Further, it is bad enough that I have to change the channel from the news when my kids are in the room as a result of the relentless showing of the Abu Ghraib photos, the last thing I need to is to have to worry about a beheading. Further, if they show it once, they will show it a hundred times--and do we really want that? Do we need that?

    The visceral reaction to this event is understandable, and it is easy to overly entangle it with Abu Ghraib. In this regard James Joyner rightly notes

    Morton Kondracke got it right on Fox News tonight when he argued that this should galvanize American support for the war on terrorism because this exemplifies the nature of the enemy. The Corner's Andrew McCarthy also gets it right, though, in urging that the Right not play the idiotic moral equivalency game we criticize the Left for by arguing this proves Abu Ghraib wasn't all that bad.

    Indeed, while I understand that the fact that we are talking about pictures and the fact that the executioners said that the killing was revenge for Abu Ghraib, it is a mistake to overly mingle these two incidences.

    The Berg murder is about the evil that al Qaeda will perpetrate in their Jihad against civilization. Abu Ghraib is about the fact that America has certain values that it needs to maintain and that some members of our military let us down.

    Just because both were recorded on digital media doesn't mean that they are actually comparable events, or that one should inform our understanding of the other.

    The Berg murder reminds us why we have to fight a war on terror. Yes, it is true that the specific incident would not have happened if we were not in Iraq. However, the invasion of Iraq did not create al Qaeda, and the evil that motivates these Jihadists existed prior to any action that we have undertaken. They are at war with civilization and we have no choice but to fight back.

    In regards to Abu Ghraib--I am currently weary of the story, hence my silence. I am saddened by it, I am disgusted by it. However, I really do not know what the proper conclusions are at this point, aside from the fact such things shouldn't happen under US military control. What steps must be taken in that regard cannot be outlined until we know how much was ordered (and by whom), and how much was spontaneous idiocy.

    Others on this Topic:

    Joe Gandelman has a worthwhile post on this subject.

    Paul at Wizbang! has a link-round up and argues that there has been a partisan response to the event.

    Kevin Drum rightly notes

    This kind of barbaric behavior will have the same effect it usually has: it will make civilized people around the world more determined than ever to exterminate al-Qaeda and its likeminded brethren.

    Jeff Quinton has done his normally fantastic job of compiling a mega-round-up of the Blogosphere on this topic.

    Posted by Steven Taylor at May 12, 2024 10:02 AM | TrackBack
    Comments

    How about the news that the US-owned Iraqi police were hassling Berg and kept him for nearly 2 weeks? Berg's parents are no fans of the American style of occupation:

    from the AP:

    But unanswered questions remained about Berg in the days before he vanished, as well as where and when he was abducted.

    Berg, who was Jewish, spoke to his parents March 24 and told them he would return home on March 30, according to his family in suburban Philadelphia.

    But Berg was detained by Iraqi police at a checkpoint in Mosul on March 24. He was turned over to U.S. officials and detained for 13 days, the family said.

    His father, Michael, said his son was not allowed to make phone calls or contact a lawyer.

    Coalition spokesman Dan Senor told reporters that Berg was detained by Iraqi police in the northern Iraqi city of Mosul. The Iraqis informed the Americans, and the FBI (news - web sites) questioned him three times about what he was doing in Iraq.

    Senor said that to his knowledge Berg "was at no time under the jurisdiction or detention of coalition forces."

    Michael Berg told The Associated Press, however, that U.S. officials were "playing word games."

    "The Iraqi police do not tell the FBI what to do. The FBI tells the Iraqi police what to do. Who do they think they're kidding?" the elder Berg said.

    Calls by the AP to police in Mosul failed to find anyone who could confirm Berg was held there. The U.S.-led Coalition Provisional Authority runs Iraq, controlling not only the police, but the military and all government ministries.

    On April 5, the Bergs filed suit in federal court in Philadelphia, contending their son was being held illegally by the U.S. military. The next day, Berg was released. He told his parents he had not been mistreated.

    Berg's father blamed the U.S. government for creating circumstances that led to his son's death, saying if his son had not been detained for so long, he might have been able to leave Iraq before the violence worsened.

    "I think a lot of people are fed up with the lack of civil rights this thing has caused," Michael Berg said. "I don't think this administration is committed to democracy."

    Posted by: Stephen at May 12, 2024 02:34 PM

    I've been doing the opposite: blogging about this stuff all week. I admit it's warn me down and I'll likely take a break. But I'd enjoy reading your views about it. I'll continue to drop in!

    Posted by: La Shawn Barber at May 12, 2024 03:01 PM

    thanks

    Posted by: Steven at May 12, 2024 03:03 PM

    I've seen some still shots of the video, but I agree with you. I do not feel the need to watch the whole thing. My imagination is vivid enough to visualize what took place (as much as I wish it wasn't). I also think that it underscores the evil nature of our enemy, and how rational thought and diplomacy will not work with such crazed individuals.

    Posted by: Rick at May 12, 2024 06:30 PM

    I watched the disgusting video. Fifteen years ago my 4 yr old daughter was murdered with a knife right here in the good old USA while I was away serving my country. There are plenty of crazed individuals everywhere as far as I am concerned. A number of decapitated bodies are found in major US cities every year. The point of my rambling is that I don't think we ever should have invaded Iraq. The elder Bush should have taken care of Saddam in the first war. Now his son has made what will probably be the worst mistake any US president has ever made before it's over with. Lives and money are being wasted for what? I say wasted because nothing is going to change over there. Vietnam accomplished what? This war will be the same thing.

    Posted by: Joe at May 12, 2024 10:16 PM

    the video wasn't disgusting, it was a fact. Facts should not be kept from the public. Yes it was a brutal act, but what was the guy doing in irac in the middle of this action? I don't know, but i don't care what the possible gains are, entering a battlezone isn't worth my life. I'm not that stupid. As for the comments about the elderbush should have taken care of this 10yrs ago...that would have been wrong the coalition objective 10yrs ago was to get Iraq out of kwuait, we succeded in that task. As for the comment that this was a mistake (it's another vietnam)and we shouldn't be there, you may be right. Let me add tho....the majority of iraq people wanted us there, most world leaders wanted sadam removed from power, we had the right to take action (sadam failed to follow the sanctions set down after the first gulfwar). Bottem line if the Iraq militant groups would stop causing problems we would set up a democratic gov't (that gives its people power) and not interfer with there lives, except for a military base much like we have in turkey.

    Posted by: bill at May 12, 2024 10:46 PM

    the video wasn't disgusting, it was a fact. Facts should not be kept from the public. Yes it was a brutal act, but what was the guy doing in irac in the middle of this action? I don't know, but i don't care what the possible gains are, entering a battlezone isn't worth my life. I'm not that stupid. As for the comments about the elderbush should have taken care of this 10yrs ago...that would have been wrong the coalition objective 10yrs ago was to get Iraq out of kwuait, we succeded in that task. As for the comment that this was a mistake (it's another vietnam)and we shouldn't be there, you may be right. Let me add tho....the majority of iraq people wanted us there, most world leaders wanted sadam removed from power, we had the right to take action (sadam failed to follow the sanctions set down after the first gulfwar). Bottem line if the Iraq militant groups would stop causing problems we would set up a democratic gov't (that gives its people power) and not interfer with there lives, except for a military base much like we have in turkey.

    Posted by: bill at May 12, 2024 10:46 PM

    I think these people are a disease to the world. I am horrified by this attricity. These people are fighting for something that we don't even know exist.(god) I am leaving for the Army in four weeks. I am 21, I am going to Georgia for infantry traing, and I just hope that they send my ass over there cause I have a very itchy trigger finger.

    Posted by: Todd at May 13, 2024 10:13 AM

    Todd,

    Keep in mind, don't get too hyped up about "having an itchy trigger finger." Fighting and killing is a serious business and requires serious thinking.

    With that, keep your head down, follow your superiors' orders to the letter, and get back here in one piece.

    Posted by: Brad S at May 13, 2024 02:57 PM

    i always thought this country was one
    it doesn't seem that way anymore
    we need to stick by Bush and our people we voted for him
    there's so many people that don't think what we all have been through in the past yaers means that much just check your history and learn

    your country U.S.A. i love it
    so should YOU
    Eric

    Posted by: eric at May 14, 2024 02:19 AM

    Que porquería, que vergüenza y que tristeza que ocurra todo esto. Realmente es algo que marca la degradación humana. Nada se justifica, ni se entiende.

    Como seres humanos debemos sentirnos realmente apenados con estas situaciones, independientemente de la nacionalidad o credo, o religión, o idioma.

    Anything justifies discrimination. Anything justifies terrorism.

    God Bless America (and the troops, they needs it really).

    Posted by: J at May 14, 2024 02:48 AM

    Todd you are young my friend, easily influenced. just remember one thing in a soldiers eyes all things media are propaganda. Things will change when you learn how to live and think as a soldier. I too was as enthusiastic when I went in. In that time I witnessed campiagns like "operation just cause", "desert storm", haiti, and bosnia. As a combat medic in multiple infantry units I have learned many things. The most important is be careful what you wish for, you will get it, and in NO way is it what you picture it to be in your mind nor is it like ANYTHING the news REALLY depicts it on the TV. Just listen to your training, watch the old timers and LEARN as much as you can from watching what they do and why, and back all of your teamates at all costs......and that itchy trigger finger will ONLY get other men on your team killed. There is a time and place, you will get your chance, but the MISSION is the most important however small or screwed up it may be. I can not expect you to understand the gravity of any of this now as a civillian, but remember these words please....it could save a teamates' life or even yours.

    Posted by: Eddie at May 14, 2024 04:21 AM

    Todd, itchy trigger finger, dude! You don't know shit about what you are getting yourself into. Keep telling yourself that you want to be in the war zone, when it is your reality, you'll wish you were back home cradled in your mom's arms.

    Itchy trigger finger -- there are a lot of fanatical muslims hoping to get you in their cross-hairs to use their itchy trigger finger too......

    and listen to J - if you don't change your train of thought you WILL get other people killed - not Iraqi's, Terrorists or Insurgents - It will be our own boys & girls that will pay the price for your itchy trigger finger, maybe even YOU.

    But you'll learn soon enough, I guess.

    Semper Fi

    Posted by: robb at May 14, 2024 05:23 PM

    Crazy Shit going on over there!

    Posted by: i at May 14, 2024 05:25 PM

    What about the thousands of mothers that allow so called doctors to decapitate and ripe their sons and daughters to shreds every day in their wombs!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - I think we need devine intervention here!!!

    Posted by: Maria at May 17, 2024 01:26 AM

    The fact of the matter is that we have no clear cut objectives bein over in Iraq. First it was because of the sanctions, it is the UN's responsibility to carry corrective measures for failures to comply. Second, it was WMD. We've found no WMD as of today. Furthermore, Iraq had no WMD that could possibly infringe our Billion Dollar Air Defense Systems. Third, it was to get Saddam. Well we've got him! WHAT NOW! It is impossible to try to convert a MUSLIM nation into a Democracy. It goes against their religion. So, even if you weed out the bad guys, the good Muslims will stand for that. As far as they are concern, good or bad, the US is the infidels, so do yo really think that we can change them. It would be like trying to turn China into a democracy or the US to communism. We've gotten Saddam, now it's time to pull out and those people stand for themselves. We've just confiscated several weapons from innocent civilians, why can't they use those weapons to defend themselves and not us do it. It's impossible to fight an enemy when you cannot tell the enemy from the innocent. We have too many problems in the US that needs to be fix instead of losing innocent lives for apparently revenge. The elderly, here, can get full medical coverage. The youth can't afford a good education. Our communities are STILL infested with DRUGS, GANGS, and all sorts of CRIME! They government is taxing almost a fourth of income yearly, then you get laid off. No insurance, no nothing! This is not what GOD intended for us.

    Posted by: Sherrod Childers at May 17, 2024 04:42 AM

    I just saw the video and am saddened. I do understand why and who we are fighting. Does anyone remember that President Bush stated that this war would be a long one? I do. The enemy is hiding among the innocent people of Iraq and Afghanistan. Our brave soldiers have to smile and wave to them, wondering which ones are going to try to kill us (soldiers). Please continue to pray for the well being of our troops and a safe return home. Be sure to thank them for allowing us the freedom to express our opinions without being arrested or WORSE. God Bless America and our Freedoms!!!!!!!!!

    Posted by: molly at May 19, 2024 11:08 AM

    I finally have the chance to watched the video. It makes me sick to my stomach. But it's sicker when I keep hearing some people talk about we should not have invade Iraq because it has nothing to do with 9/11.
    Well, this is for those who are still crying for peace and demonstration about "War is not an answer". Guess what people, wake up and smell the reality. We may or may not find WMD, but Gulf war and the finding of graveyard with countless bodies of innocents are enough to prove what Saddam is capable of. Sometimes war is the price you have to pay to seek for peace and freedom. You people should be glad that your A** are not over there fighting for your freedom and rights. You should be thanksfull for all the sacrifices our troops are doing in Iraq. If you are still stupid and ignorance about their purpose oversea, then let me remind you people that they are fighting and protecting your freedom and privileges so that you people can practice your "freedom of assembly" and "Freedom of Speech".
    I bet almost all of you who don't believe in this war have not lived a day under tyrany and dictatorship. You should be grateful that you have your freedom, rights, and the laws to protect your rights. You may have read and heard about another country, then you think you know all about human rights. Perhaps you should go to Iraq and live there to see where you freedom of assembly will take you; and to get the taste of living in fear constantly, then you tell me if you still feel the same.
    I have lived in poverty, lived under the dictatorship and discrimination of the communist government. How would you like to know that you can't get to college because you a female; or if you are a male, you could not get a higher education because your parents worked for the U.S government before 1975; or because of any other reasons, or no reason at all.
    My family have been here for 20 years. I grew up here, worked hard, and with the help of friends, family and neighbor, I am now a successful pathologist as well as a network engineer. I am proud to say that I am a U.S Citizen and that I am proud to be part of this country and GOD BLESS AMERICA and OUR TROOPS.

    Thanks to all the men and women who are in IRAQ fighting for what we believe in: "HUMANITY" and "FREEDOM" for mankind.

    Posted by: Teresa at May 19, 2024 11:17 PM

    The Merriam-Webster dictionary defines terrorism as "the systematic use of terror especially as a means of coercion". To the best of my knowledge the ONLY country that engages in a systematic use of fire-power to get its own way is the US! If you find a beheading terrorizing then one can only wonder how you'd feel if a 500lb modern warhead was to land in your neighbourhood. If you are UNLUCKY enough to survive it you'll be very busy for the next few weeks scraping up remains of your family with a shovel to avoid the stench.
    THAT is terrorizing... GROW UP AND GEAT REAL THE LOT OF YOU!

    Posted by: marios polycarpou at May 20, 2024 06:15 AM

    My prayers and deepest thoughts are here for his family and all americans to see that video. Rest in peace Nick.

    Posted by: Beatriz at May 21, 2024 07:36 PM

    my sympathies for the Berg family, nothing can make up for their loss..
    But I am surprised at the ignorance of the people...heres the article that "Nick Berg decapitation video declared "a fraud" by medical doctor" http://www.aztlan.net/fake_video.htm and heres an article on how the video was filmed in Abu Gharib prison http://www.aztlan.net/berg_abu_ghraib_video.htm
    http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/CAR405A.html

    Before the war, I was with the president because I thought we were fighting for freedom...thats wat the average Americans think..hes out there for something else..I hope you guys will read more articles other than the mainstream media that fabricates everything about the war and read wats REALLY going on..then u would know some "brave american soldiers" arent any better than these dogs

    Posted by: Sal at May 23, 2024 03:52 PM

    MAN I DON'T KNOW WHERE YOU PEOPLE SAW THE VIDEO AT I HAVE BEEN TRYING TO SEE IT SINCE THE DAY IT WAS ON THE NEWS AND THEY CUT OFF ALL THE LINKS..AND SOME PEOPLE ARE FINDING IT RIGHT NOW AS I WRITE THIS, I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW WHERE

    Posted by: NO-NAME at May 24, 2024 05:14 PM

    mr.taylor,
    i have recently read your comments regarding the n. berg beheading video - i find it curious that you can comment on the video without having seen it - i work in the medical field and i also do work in film - anyone who is familiar with film technique and/or human anatomy can see the video is an obvious fake - it is bogus, a fraud - whether mr.berg is dead or not, i cannot say, but the truth of the matter is, the video does not depict a group of men severing the head of a living human being - i simply wanted to respond to your writings because the inability to confront your fears and phobias can only lead to superstition and hysteria - thank you for your time and this forum.

    respectfully,
    horsevk

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    Posted by: jesse oviedo at June 22, 2024 02:31 AM

    One cannot really understand the sense of sanity in the lives and attitudes of those cruel, ungodly, and heartless Islamic Jihadists who derive joy, satisfaction, and pride in the shedding of human blood. Does any right sensible human being ever need to be taught by any religion that human life is highly sacred? Do those senseless Jihadists ever take some time to pinch themselves first, and get a feeling of the pains of their innocent victims? The anger and vengence of God will be on their heads forever. The sword with which they have shed the blood of American liberators, N. Berg, P. Johnson, and the young Korean, and many others, will soon fall on their own necks. May God have mercy on all the innocent victims of Jihadist terrorism.

    Posted by: P. U. Iwunna at June 24, 2024 11:19 AM

    One cannot really understand the sense of sanity in the lives and attitudes of those cruel, ungodly, and heartless Islamic Jihadists who derive joy, satisfaction, and pride in the shedding of human blood. Does any right sensible human being ever need to be taught by any religion that human life is highly sacred? Do those senseless Jihadists ever take some time to pinch themselves first, and get a feeling of the pains of their innocent victims? The anger and vengence of God will be on their heads forever. The sword with which they have shed the blood of American liberators, N. Berg, P. Johnson, and the young Korean, and many others, will soon fall on their own necks. May God have mercy on all the innocent victims of Jihadist terrorism.

    Posted by: P. U. Iwunna at June 24, 2024 11:19 AM
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