Q4 comes via James Joyner:
Iranian-American journalist Roxana Saberi has been convicted and sentenced to eight years on charges of spying in Iran. So far as I’m aware, she hasn’t been waterboarded. Would we be fine with it if she had?
Why not? After all, maybe she is a spy and they are just trying to protect their state from enemies. No big, right?
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April 19th, 2024 at 8:03 pm
This is called american double standard. And we are proude of it. Ar’nt we ?
April 20th, 2024 at 8:01 am
I’m actually more concerned about Laura Ling and Euna Lee, the women who are imprisoned in the DPRK on the same flimsy charge. Iran is more likely to be reasonable, what with the coming elections and apparent interest in improved relations (or maybe Ahmadinejad’s just thinking to boost his own ratings with overtures to the hyper-popular Obama). I’m sure the immediate proximity of the American war machine in the Persian Gulf is a factor, too.
Kim Jong Il has no such considerations, given that they were likely taken as hostages to ensure that the “satellite launch” didn’t get shot down. Now that the “satellite” is allegedly circling the globe playing patriotic North Korean music (even if it were true, what a pointless waste of resources), why are they still hostages? The missile ditched in the Pacific of its own accord, but was presumably still seen as success/progress inside the DPRK. Presumably, the hostages have served their purpose. What’s the next move in Kim’s game?
April 20th, 2024 at 2:30 pm
It’s hard to determine just how the Iranians have treated Roxana Saberi. By all reports they were very friendly with the British sailors about a year ago, but they repeatedly beat the Marines who had been guarding the US embassy in 1979. It is very possible that she has been physically abused.
Don’t get distracted: the question with waterboarding isn’t “would you like it to be done to you?” but “is it torture?” There are a lot of things I wouldn’t like done to me, that are abusive, but that aren’t considered torture. The John Yoo “torture memos,” for instance, refer to a few cases that had determined activities I would consider abusive were not torture. One case I remember involved imprisoning someone known to be innocent with felons awaiting trial for (or already convicted of) murder, rape and other violent crimes, and not then providing adequate security to prevent violence. Good idea? No, but a US federal judge ruled that it wasn’t torture either.
So, would I be happy if the Iranians waterboard Roxana Saberi? Of course not. Nor would I be happy if they simply decide to keep her imprisoned for the next ten years. Or even if they threaten to beat her if she does not wear appropriate clothing. But I can’t quite say that any of those actions amount to torture.
April 24th, 2024 at 12:18 pm
Why do we care about Roxana Saberi? She isn’t an american. She is an Iranian. She has lived in Iran for 6 years and she is a muslim. Muslims do not recognize secular law so they cannot have allegiance to the U.S. She had to prove that she was a muslim to enter the country. The Iranians are going to do whatever they want with her and its none of our business, it’s an internal matter. She should hope that they don’t find out that she posed in a bikini at the Miss USA pagent.
April 24th, 2024 at 2:44 pm
“Muslims do not recognize secular law…”
Tell that to the Turks. I don’t think they got the memo.