Via Reuters: To rebut rumors, Palin says daughter, 17, pregnant
Bristol Palin, one of Alaska Gov. Palin’s five children with her husband, Todd, is about five months pregnant and is going to keep the child and marry the father, the Palins said in a statement released by the campaign of Republican presidential candidate John McCain.
A couple of quick thoughts:
- I feel sorry for the daughter, as her mother’s candidacy means having her life become a public issue, whether that is a good thing or not. No 17 year-old wants that kind of scrutiny.
- On the other hand, part of Palin’s positives include her family, and therefore there is some legitimacy to looking at that family.
- This will raise questions about the McCain vetting progress.
- The fact that Bristol Palin is keeping the baby and marrying the father will actually help reinforce Palin’s pro-life bona fides.
- This proves, rather quickly, that it takes time for the public to truly get to know all there is to know about a candidate, and adds support to my position that the likelihood is that Palin is more of a threat to be a negative than a promise to be a positive for McCain’s candidacy over the long haul.
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September 1st, 2008 at 2:22 pm
I hate to sound juvenile but this campaign is getting weird. Just weird.
I’m not sure how this could really be a good thing for McCain. According to the article, he knew about the pregnancy and still picked Palin. I have to assume he thinks this will light a fire under the pro-life crowd’s butts.
It’s the kind of thing that I hate to see politicized. These kids are going to have a rough enough go of it, as all young parents do.
These rumors about the fake pregnancy, though - that really took me a bit off guard, the business about the child with down syndrome. It seems like every time I think we’ve gone to the bottom with this stuff, the pit gets deeper. The right and their claims that Obama is a secret muslim, the left and this business about fake pregnancies.
The sad thing is, I know the people who make stuff up and propagate it believe they are justified in doing so. They believe that it’s SO important for their person to win and the other person to lose that they are willing to go to any means to get that outcome. Nevermind if we have to lie or cheat. The ends justifies the means.
How many decent governments in the history of the world have fallen because of that kind of thinking?
The whole thing is disgusting to me. I get closer and closer every day to throwing up my hands and giving up on the system completely - let everyone else do the petty squabbling and voting.
This stuff really makes me sick.
September 1st, 2008 at 2:23 pm
Can’t disagree with anything you said there, Steven.
But I have to say that, with respect to the Republican Party, it is just another unbelievable plot twist every day. I mean, really, someone is making all this up, right? And in a couple of days, we’re going to realize it was all a stand-up set-up sort of thing. Right?
September 1st, 2008 at 2:29 pm
Net effect of this revelation is absolutely positive. The Palin family practices their beliefs. If Obama’s mother followed his advice he wouldn’t be a factor in this election:
“But if they make a mistake, I don’t want them punished with a baby.”
September 1st, 2008 at 2:39 pm
MSS: Clearly there is something of a “you can’t make this stuff up” feel to many of the story lines, to be sure.
September 1st, 2008 at 2:54 pm
The morale fiber of this country is being eroded by people who think the birth of a baby is a “mistake” or a “punishment” - happens all the time, birth of babies (if there is love for humanity babies are born). The only punishment is when the adults who made the baby didn’t think about the responsiblities that go with having sex. Yeah, sex is fun, but it has it’s responsibilities that go along with all that “fun”. By the way, this is not only a Republican “dilemma”, this subject involves and crosses all party lines in families all around the world, been there & done it, and we all survived. Seems to me Mrs. Palin walks her talk, unlike so many others who just don’t get what that means, she has raised responsible children, too, who are not afraid to face their decisions head-on, even when they may get the cart before the horse - like no one else has ever done that, you know, take the plunge and accept the “consequences” like they are. Get real! would you know reality if it hit you over the head or is it easier to continue to be afraid of what you don’t understand. OOOOOOooooo! The boogie man may be right behind the next door you open guys.
September 1st, 2008 at 3:26 pm
I remember the day I had to tell my parents about my “oops”. Obviously calling myself “Granny” means I made a hard choice, even when abortion was available to me. Wish I could give you the latest picture of “oops” today, with his wife and 3 great kids.
My Great Aunt Hester said, “First babies can come any time. All the rest take 9 months.” And she was born in the 1901! Long gone now but not forgotten.
My thoughts are the same as Dr. Steve on point #1, it can’t be easy to know that your choices might impact your parents career dreams or even America’s dreams, and that now everyone in the whole country knows what you did!
We can thank Hollywood for preparing us for this.
Thanks to Commander in Chief and Gina Davis we know a woman VP can survive in the WH if that heartbeat fails.
Thanks to Men in Trees for making Alaska sexy.
Thanks to Juno, we have compassion for the one night of oops that becomes life.
Dr. Taylor, I really really hope to gloat.
September 1st, 2008 at 3:36 pm
What really worries me about Palin is her environmental policies (especially in regard to drilling in ANWR). Given the state of our environment these days I think it is evermore important for us, as consumers to support ‘green businesses’ that benefit the environment. For example, http://www.simplestop.net stops your postal junk mail and benefits the environment.
September 1st, 2008 at 5:08 pm
I have to say that I was impressed with Obama’s response to this. It was surprisingly decent and he called on his supporters to leave the children of the candidates out of things, that “this should not be part of our politics.”
Whether or not his supporters will honor that or not, I guess, we’ll see.
September 1st, 2008 at 5:51 pm
“The fact that Bristol Palin is keeping the baby and marrying the father will actually help reinforce Palin’s pro-life bona fides. “
Sure, because having a child, at 17, out of wedlock and while still in high school, has long been the Republican notion of “traditional family values.”
September 1st, 2008 at 6:00 pm
Sure, because having a child, at 17, out of wedlock and while still in high school, has long been the Republican notion of “traditional family values.”
That’s a different (and very real) problem.
That she isn’t going to abort the child, however, does add to the pro-life side of the ledger.
However understand: I am hardly saying that this is a fantastic turn of events, either on the personal level for those involved nor politically for McCain-Palin.
September 1st, 2008 at 7:35 pm
How could you do this to us! Sarah Palin must have yelled at Bristol, her 17 year old daughter , when she learned about Bristol’s being pregnant. It is tough when you are going around pushing schools to adapt abstinence as their primal sex education, while you are unable to teach that same principal to your own offspring! Now five months pregnant, Bristol Palin decides to carry her pregnancy to term, we wouldn’t want to enrage mommy now would we Bristol? How sad is that. Our prayers go out to the Palin family.
September 1st, 2008 at 7:41 pm
I don’t think a 16 year old having unprotected sex is a Republican version of “family values.” Think about it. She was pregnant at the same time her mom was if the Gov’s baby is 4 months old and Bristol is 5 months pregnant. A 44 year old grandmother with her own 9 month old child (fast forward to Bristol’s due date)? Every republican who is supporting that ticket HAS to be confused by this. The republican pundits may be able to dance around it and keep turning every Palin question around to a question about Obama, but I don’t see how self-thinking voters will be able to defend this new controversy with a straight face considering what they tout as their holier than though values.
September 1st, 2008 at 8:25 pm
What kind of hypocrits preach abstinence, and then make excuses when it happens in your household?. Is Bristol a good example for American Youth?
John McCain’s Campaign has successfully put a white face on teen pregnancy. I hope Bristol’s baby-dady heard Obama’s tyrade to Black fathers who have children out of wedlock (which is the real issue here, not abortion). I thought Obama would definitely lose, because Mcain chose Palin, but she was chosen friday, and is wrapped in two anti-conservative issues on monday-good job, a daughter will have a child who is a year younger than his uncle, andf Palin is in a scandal wher it is alegged that she fired the public safety commisioner because he refused to fire her former brother in law . Family Values Dies in the republican party!!!!!!!! 09/01/2008
September 1st, 2008 at 8:33 pm
This is a RIDICULOUS and an insult to women and anyone with a brain. The world is laughing at us! There is a double standard here as well. 1) if this was michelle obama and her daughter, the Media and the Republicans would have a field day! In otherwords, when it’s a white family with a teenage daughter, it’s a ‘mistake.’ But when it’s a minority family (Black, Hispanic, etc.), they need a review of the American values. 2) She’s preaching abstinence but it didn’t work on her daughter…hum, sounds like her influence skills aren’t there at all. 3) She’s a women and supposedly a ‘game-changer’ and ‘tough cookie’…we are at war and horrible econonic times, is this the best the Republicans have?!? 3) She just got a passport to visit Coast Guard in Kuwait…but Obama was getting crap for not travelling enough even thought he’s been to many countries before this election! 3) Her response to being ready for the #1 job in america is “Yup. yup.” World leaders will look at her as a beauty queen who they’ll smile at and offer tea instead of real respect for her credetials — which she has none! 4) There are more people in New Orleans than Alaska…c’mon! She hasn’t even written a bill or changed a specific policy. We are not idiots, it’s an obvious play for women — WHICH WILL NT WORK! Is this the new Harriet Myers?!?
September 1st, 2008 at 8:35 pm
Why would John McCain knowly subject this young woman to national political scrutiny? Surely, he and his campaign are not naive enough to believe it is a “private” family matter when their political agenda calls that the rest of us legislatively succumb to abstinance only education, abortion prohibitions and a prescribed set so-called “family values”. Basically, McCain and Palin (yes, Palin) have put their personal/political agendas ahead of this young lady’s privacy. I have to say it is remarkable that when a pregnancy happens to a Republican notable it is private, but it is a public policy and legislative decision when it happens to the rest of us.
September 1st, 2008 at 8:41 pm
Obama actually had the best thing to say about this. It shouldn’t be part of our politics, and we shouldn’t even be discussing it.
That said, it’s a bit presumptuous to assume anything about the intimate details of the girl’s pregnancy. Assuming she had unprotected sex is ignoring the fact that birth control can and does fail - I have two nephews on account of that. Assuming we know what Sarah Palin’s response to her daughter’s pregnancy was (yelling) is also pure speculation. We don’t know that stuff and it’s arrogant and presumptuous - not to mention indecent - to think that we do. Bottom line on that stuff: it’s none of our business, and if we make these kinds of assumptions, shame.
Shame.
September 1st, 2008 at 8:46 pm
I have been a bit surprised at all of the responses here that see this as some sort of pro-life policy announcement. It isn’t. It’s just one girl’s decision.
There was no mention of pro-life policy, nor discussion thereof, in the announcement of this girl’s pregnancy - only that she had decided to keep the baby.
Why has that made so many people so angry? Isn’t it her right to choose? And if it is, why isn’t it OK for her to choose to keep the baby?
I’ve never really understood why the pro-choice movement only allows one to choose abortion. That doesn’t seem like much of a choice to me.
September 1st, 2008 at 8:54 pm
‘What is done in the dark will be incovered in the light’
Although obama did request to leave Palin’s family out of polictics, thus out of the lime-lighr, why should they be spared? If we’re going to give the GOP even more ‘executive’ treatment, then we should do the same for Britney & Zoey Spears, Nicole Ritchie, Paris, John Edwards, etc. Also, un-wd mothers are unfortunately an everyday occurence and come loadd with many a hardship, including the total lack of privacy.
However, when running for the White House, it would be in the best interest to the American people to come clean upfront and not have the press tell us. Just makes me have a very cautious eye for Sara Palin. Ya just gotta ge your own house in order before you ya start running your mouth about ‘reform’.
Considering Palin’s pending investigation for an abuse of power and now this, I’m very curious to see what other skeletons await in her closet.
Truthfully, this is soon to be grandmother who needs to devote her undevided attention to her family and not the entir nation. Her young daughter’s gonna need all the help she can get.
September 1st, 2008 at 9:17 pm
Ms. Palin needs to step down for the sake of the Republican party. She may be a social conservative but she has not been vetted for the job of VP. A short conversation with McCain, very little international travel make her inelligible.
Furthermore, these stories the alleged using government power to fire her brother-in-law, her husband being arrested in the past for a DUI, and her daughter being pregnant are taking away from John McCain.
I will no longer vote for McCain because if he dies, I don’t believe Palin can do the job of a President. And that is a real concern.
September 1st, 2008 at 9:45 pm
Please help me understand the double speak involved in this situation. I have teenagers and yes, they do get into trouble. However, I would think that somewhere in this whole discussion, we might begin to realize the shortcommings of absistence only education. Here is a young woman, obviously raised with good family values and she ends up pregnant. In a small community, typically everyone knows what is going on….so, I am baffled as to why folks who would normally say, “put your family first” they are now saying, oh, it is ok, that no one is home to take care of the kids.
September 1st, 2008 at 9:46 pm
So now we are a country questions people why they are having kids?(Sarah at 44 and Bristol at 17) and it is our business? What happened to the whole “its a PRO-choice position” or is it only applicable when having an abortion?
September 1st, 2008 at 9:50 pm
The hypocrisy is staggering.
Sarah Palin promotes abstinence; pro-life; devout religious values. And now the McCain camp and the RNC want to spin this premarital sex scandal as “a typical American family, dealing with a typical family situation.” What appears to be typical is the religious right vote manipulated once again by the RNC. When will you mindless sheep recognize that John McCain does not share your values.
September 1st, 2008 at 9:57 pm
I can not believe that GROWN ADULTS are going to talk so bad about a 17 year old girl! Have none of you ever done something wrong? Yes you have, we are all guilty of sin and who are you and the MEDIA to sit and talk about any one period. How would you like to have your business put out for the world to see you HIPPOCRATES. How dare you put down her mother. From where I’m sitting she has done a GREAT JOB. For all of you to be putting them down is just letting me know just how sorry you realy are. How about taking a long look in the mirror before you open your mouths. Heaven forbid you ever walk a mile in their shoes. I would hate to have any of you as my parents. So before you start talking so bad about people, why don’t you clean your house first.
September 1st, 2008 at 10:02 pm
A teenage pregnancy is as old as time and happens in families of all religious beliefs and regardless of socio-economic status. That the teens in question here are taking on the responsibility of keeping and raising that baby is admirable. What is less than admirable is that the teen’s mother knew that this would not stay a secret for long and still chose to set her child up for this national scrutiny.
Family first? Country first? I don’t think so.
September 1st, 2008 at 10:07 pm
Rather than turning the pregnancy story of Sarah Palin’s teenage daughter into a contest of claims to self-righteousness, people should turn their attention to Palin’s views on sex education. If we can assume that the daughter was taught abstinence-only as Gov. Palin supports as policy, what does her young pregnancy tell us about the success of such programs? Journalists should ask Gov. Palin what her views on sex education for teens currently are, and whether her daughter’s pregnancy has changed her opinion about the viability of abstinence-only programs. The salient issue here isn’t abortion, it is sex education.
September 1st, 2008 at 10:12 pm
Finally something I can agree with Sen. Obama. Children are off limits!
It never seems to amaze me how down right ignorant CNN views are. Tonight’s Wolf Blitzer report is another one sided slant to one sided reporting. We don’t want to hear of a private issue when we all have experienced such heartache. Gov. Palin has guts and as a Vice President that is what is needed. John Adams spoke about such needs as he presided over the very first Senate and it has been the same ever since.
She is tough, she is not afraid to take on the issue, and she is not from Washington. McCain/Palin have my Indiana Vote.
September 1st, 2008 at 10:25 pm
Children are off limits!
September 1st, 2008 at 10:33 pm
17, Pregnant and a Mormon.
I was raised Mormon and was taught about sex and abstinence. I knew the risks and my parents were very strict. when I found out I was pregnant, the first words out of my mouth was “I CANNOT HAVE AN ABORTION”.
I am a proud mother of a beautiful 18 year old girl (her father and I have been married since and have added 2 more siblings for her. We vowed to make it tru thick and thin and without help from welfare. ) Do I preach abstinence- you bet! Every chance I get. I tell my daughter that while I have NEVER regretted having her…it is not the most ideal way to start a family because she knows how hard its been both financially and emotionally for me and her father to provide for them. She knows the risks and knows if she gets pregnant, her life may not turn out like mine- having the father around. BUT we will love her and support her and her baby.
In church I held my head high and my mother was never called a hypocrite nor will I be if the same thing happens to my own daughter. LIFE HAPPENS, AND ITS HOW YOU DEAL WITH IT!!
September 1st, 2008 at 10:34 pm
I would love a normal election….this is nuts! To much drama!
September 1st, 2008 at 11:02 pm
Sarah Palin’s abstinence only education policy fails in the worst way.
17 year old Bristol Palin pregnant. She’s still in high school. She’s unwed.
Her mother, VP candidate Sarah Palin, is a pro-life Republican who believes that abstinence only education works.
Governor Palin told an Alaskan pro-family group, “explicit sex-ed programs will not find my support.”
Her administration may be about to lay fresh tracks; the public-health division in Alaska has decided to submit its application for the federally funded State Abstinence Education Grant Program, which will promote abstinence from sexual activity to “groups which are most likely to bear children out-of-wedlock” until the end of 2013.
Which groups? Because teaching your kids about abstinence, instead of giving them a condom, is clearly the most effective path.
The arrogance is astounding, and that conservatives are still rallying around Palin as being an effective leader proves only desperation. (and, before the lame argument comes up, I’m not questioning Palin’s merits as a mother - merely her clearly botched policy on sex education).
September 1st, 2008 at 11:20 pm
Blind Ambition!! NOBODY IS THINKING ABOUT THESE KIDS!! A special needs kid less than 1-YEARS old. A confused pregnant TEEN. I believe that some people will sacrifice their families for personal gain.
These KIDS NEED A MOTHER RIGHT NOW!!! NOT A V.P.
Please find another female V.P. running mate before it is TOO LATE!!!!!
September 2nd, 2008 at 12:26 am
Let me see if I understand all of this. Palin is pregnant with a child that has Downs Syndrome (she knew because the pro-lifer that she is had an amnio) yet she is never photographed looking the least bit pregnant (she is photographed drinking lots of coffee, a pregnancy no-no). She goes into labor in Texas but goes ahead and gives a speech then flies eight hours to Alaska to give birth. It is reported that the flight attendants were not aware that she was even pregnant much less in labor. How many reasonable women would fly eight hours in labor with a high risk pregnancy? What OB would allow that? So, she gives birth (no record of that at the hospital she supposedly gave birth in) and goes back to work three days later. All the while young Bristol is at home the last few months of school with mono. Fast forward four months. As rumors are swirling that the baby may not be Palin’s child but rather her grandchild, the GOP decides to squelch that rumor with the news that young Bristol is actaully five months pregnant now so the other baby could not be hers. Interesting. I think it will be very interesting to see if this baby is born full term or is a couple of months early or, god forbid, young Bristol loses this baby (which under any circumstances would be a tragedy). This is all just a little too fishy. Could it be possible that Palin is trying to cover up one lie with another? In any case, what decent mother would be running for VP of the free world with a newborn with special needs and a teenager facing her own crisis. Are these the family values the GOP keeps touting? If this situation was going on in the Democratic party in a (gasp) black man’s family, the right wing would be chomping at the bit to call the dems on their lack of morals and family values. When a Dem has a baby out of wedlock it is a welfare cheat from a loose mother. When a Repub has a baby out of wedlock it is the moral, upright, pro life, blessing of life. Always a double standard. It does not matter to me if Bristol Palin has triplets twice before she turns twenty. It is not my business. What is our business is the judgement or lack thereof of a woman who could be our next President and the judgement or lack thereof of the man that chose her for this position. On this VERY important decision for a man who is 72 years old with four bouts with cancer under his belt, McCain flunked. The American people are the ones who will get screwed along with the very fertile Palin family.
September 2nd, 2008 at 12:52 am
Let’s all just face it. John McCain had a brain fart!!!
No thinking went into this decision what so ever!
NO WAY should this person be elected to the second highest
postion in the land!
September 2nd, 2008 at 1:31 am
Amazing…
If this had happened to the daughter of the democratic VP nominee, it would be shouted out to all the world as an ironic case in point herlding the obvious degrading family values, an attack on the American family, how the republicans are the ones for marriage, abstinence, family values, etc. etc. The democrats would be blamed for all teenage unwed pregnancy, Radio hosts would point to a “contagion” of bad values coming from “them”, along with all the rest of societies ills.
Now that it has happened to the daughter of a right wing republican, it becomes a “family matter” and an “OOOPs” and we shouldn’t talk about the irony and hypocracy, and should just get on with our business and buy baby socks? Not even discuss the fact that the mother of the unwed pregnant 17 year old(and VP nominee) is staunchly against teaching sex education in schools? I don’t think so!!
Now I know Ms. Palin’s 17 year old daughter did not ask to be in the political spotlight. But her mother very much did. She did this knowing that her little girl was 5 months pregnant. Having trained and worked in broadcasting, she also surely knew what was coming for her daughter when accepting the VP nomination. This girl is 17 years old, and pregnant, and will now have national inquirer photographers chasing her constantly at least until the child is born, and probably longer. If she didn’t know that, she obviously wasn’t thinking ahead, and that is scary. Now. THAT is bad judgment!! That is putting your political aspirations far above that of your child.
As for Mr. Mcain, I am seeing quotes from him now saying that he knew about the pregnancy, he knew about the ongoing Troopergate investigation and is “sure she has done nothing wrong” (even though he didn’t interview anyone but Sarah Palin) and stands behind the choice of Palin as “The BEST person for the job” after two meetings. COME… ON… really? The BEST person you could come up with? Really? REALLY???? Now THAT is REALLY bad judgment…..
September 2nd, 2008 at 1:32 am
I thought this was going to be a hot topic because I thought the “kids” are doing something illegal until I went to this site. http://www.avert.org/aofconsent.htm
The fact that they are not married is mute. They made their choice. Isn’t that what life is all about?
I agree with the great senator of Illinois when he says “off limits.”
Pan, I agree with you too. John McCain has never put to much thinking into many of his political ideas. I just want to know if John will still cut ethanol subsidies in great corn states? sarcasm->Yeah, sure who the heck would want to help out with finding new forms of great energy!<-sarcasm
Boo Hiss John McCain!
Hurray Barack Obama!
September 2nd, 2008 at 1:53 am
“It never seems to amaze me how down right ignorant CNN views are. Tonight’s Wolf Blitzer report is another one sided slant to one sided reporting. We don’t want to hear of a private issue when we all have experienced such heartache.”
Please don’t speak for me… The “Me” part of “We” does want to hear about this. Do you really think they wouldn’t report on this if the baby were on the other foot?
It is exteremely pertinent to me in this case as Mr. Mcain knew of this when choosing Ms. Palin, and Ms. Palin knew of this (and the ramifications for her daughter) when she accepted. This in addition to her having a special needs child under one year old, shows political asperations far beyond the care of her new baby and her teenage daughter. Does ANYONE think this will be GOOD for either of them??????
Bluntly: This shows extremely bad judgment on behalf of Palin AND Mcain
Don’t get me wrong, I have no doubt those that would vote for that ticket in any case will continue to do so, and I am sure thay are busy creating positive talking points as I write..
September 2nd, 2008 at 2:22 am
I think it is interesting how the true nature of the people who call themselves liberal Democrats has been revealed. Throwing insults at a 17 year old who is pregnant and judging not only the 17 year old, but the mother as well? Saying that Palin is not fit to serve as VP because she is women with children and should stay home? Using the fact that her newborn has DS against her? Thank you for showing your true colors. Finally… those who are not completely blinded by your lies will see that the Democrat party is fully of bigotry, that the Democrat party is sexist and that the Democrat party is full of hate. Democrats and the leftist media have tried pin these characteristics on Republicans for far too long. Thank you for making the truth known. I just hope your message gets out to all who need to hear it. Keep on talking!! Seriously… showing your true character will help us out. Thank You!
September 2nd, 2008 at 3:23 am
Who is insulting a 17 year old?
Oh and by the way, I am not liberal, and I am not a Democrat. I am somewhat conservative and an indepennt voter, having voted farly equally D and R. Just because somebody says something you don’t like, they must be liberal?
It is interesting that you (an obvious conservative republican) choose to attck the messanger and distort what I said, in an effort to skirt the issue, rather than deal with what has been stated and is fairly obvious with a few minutes thought. I am sure it will work with some. It doesn’t work with me. Lets discuss the issue.
I am not(and have not)insuled Mrs. Palins 17 year old daughter. I am neither saying that Ms. Palin should stay home because she is a woman or a mother. I am questioning her judgment in either not considering that her daughter would (very obviously) become part of the campaign, thus putting a confused 17 year old in a very bright spotlight, and accepting the worlds second most taxing job (and possibly the toughest job, if something happens to Mr. Mcain) when she has a one year old that has downs syndrome. This is simply and realistically a burden for anyone but most importantly for her newest daughter and her 17 year old teen. So are you saying that isn’t the case? No burden? No problem? Regrdless of what else she has on her plate, she is ready to be VP? If I had a special needs child under 1 year old and another confused child in crisis, I would not take the job, and put my children through the onslaught, especially… announcing my daughters pregancy as part of a presidential campaign 3 days after accepting the nomination. Oh by the way, I am a man… Nothing to do with men and women or being a mother. Everything to do with dealing in an obvious reality and priorities of parents regarding children.
I am also saying that as John Mcain knew this, AND also knew that Ms. Palin is currently under investigation for improper use of power in Alaska. It should have been painfully obvious that at the very least this would be a self inflicted distraction, and at worst, an absolute implosion. In either case, very bad judgment. Now I am seeing reports that there are damning recorded telephone conversations from Ms Palins office as well as several emails. This DOES NOT look good, regardless of how much you attack me or misguidedly, Democrats. And if you say that this investigation (that started before anyone in the nation except for Alaska even knew who Ms. Palin was) is “liberal media bias” I will puke. Labor Day is a slow campaign day. I really, sincerely, wonder if she will make it to the weekend… Time will tell. I would bet the Democrats actually hope she does.
This isn’t about republicans and democrats for me (I am neither) it is about judgment and actually running the country I love and live in, and making up my mind who to vote for. Obviously you have long since made up your mind and you don’t have that problem…
September 2nd, 2008 at 6:25 am
I have just one question - if Chelsea Clinton had got pregnant aged 17, just how much vicious slander would have been heaped on her head, and on that of her mother? A great deal,I would imagine. Whereas with this Palin lot, it’s like they are the Holy Family.
September 2nd, 2008 at 7:06 am
It’s been almost 24 hours since the news of Bristol broke. At first, I admit, I rushed to defend the family because I was enamored with Sarah. Now, it has sunk it, pinged around my brain, and my gut/emotional response is over.
Dr. Steve, you were right that this choice could “hurt a little” because she was an unknown factor and these kinds of things could emerge.
We wouldn’t hear about Chelsea Clinton because it would be covered up. A quickie trip to the clinic would remove any embarrassing political damage to the Clinton family.
Shocking as it may seem, older teens get into committed relationships and sometimes they get caught up in back seat passion. Many a child was born post prom. Many a mom had a baby bump on her wedding day.
This is quite different from hooking up or rainbow lipstick and the Bill Clinton legacy of orally transmitted STD’s. Can someone tell me how effective sex ed classes are in preventing anything. How does it matter if the person’s family is Republican or Democrat? You can roll a condom on a banana or cucumber all you want but kids are still having sex and still getting pregnant. Even in the 1950’s, boys kept a single condom in their wallets which generally went unused in the heat of the moment.
Bristol knew she was pregnant when she went on stage with her mother. She could have played it safe. A woman knows in about 3 weeks that something is amiss. And the family obviously knew because 5 months is quite far along. Should Sarah Palin turned down the job? I really thought so at first.
I thought, wow, how could mom subject this girl to public scrutiny? I thought, geez, the left is going to use this to win an election. But folks, life isn’t about elections or even good timing, it is mostly about life, and family, and dealing with hard realities. I don’t know why Mrs. Palin went ahead with her acceptance speech but I do know that this family obviously considered all the implications and made their choices and didn’t decide to do what would have been politically correct.
They are taking the lumps and they are taking the heat, and in the end, the baby will be born, the election won or lost but it doesn’t matter to voters in the booth what Bristol did with her boyfriend one night in the back seat.
Sarah Palin took on the corruption in her state. That matters to me. She has the Annie Oakley image I wish I had. That matters to me. John McCain selected someone who is a maverick and a reformer. That matters to me -alot. And in light of the fact that he knew about this baby coming out of wedlock and went ahead with this person anyway, well, that just puts him in a new category of hero in my book.
September 2nd, 2008 at 7:19 am
Ohio Granny:
Thanks for the note/concession. Of course. the whole script is yet to be written, so we shall see what the results are. You may yet get to gloat!
September 2nd, 2008 at 7:30 am
Ann Dunham, the mother of Barack Obama, was born on November 29, 1942. Barack Obama was born on August 14, 1961, his parents were married on February 2, 1961. According to the math she was 3 months pregnant and had just turned 18 years old when she was married.
September 2nd, 2008 at 7:36 am
I finally heard one intelligent remark from Obama and that was that candidates families are off limits. I just wish that CNN would leave the Palin family alone and talk about the issues of the qualifications of both candidates. I am still in a quandry about how Osama can be born in Kenya and still be able to run for the Presidency.
CNN Please get your act together.
September 2nd, 2008 at 7:47 am
Barack Obama was born in Hawaii. His father was born in Kenya. His mother was born in Kansas. Please don’t make me defend his right to be POTUS but get your facts straight.
September 2nd, 2008 at 8:13 am
[...] The daughter thing I have already discussed above and here. [...]
September 2nd, 2008 at 8:21 am
Ohio Granny…unbelievable that you suggest that a Chelsea Clinton would have gone to the clinic if she was pregnant…you just don’t get it…I’m pro choice..but would not have my wife go through an abortion..just because we believe a woman has a choice doesn’t mean we are all running the clinic for as you say…a quick fix….I would have the child too…but its about choice….McCain and Palin Heroes? You are right…they knew about the pregnancy before announcing her running for VP…how can you call two people that put politics over concern for a young pregnant teenage girl heroes? You don’t think they knew this would go public? You’re a grandmother…so you ask yourself this…would you have put your daughter or grandaughter through all of this scrutiny just so you could be a VP nominee? Talk about lack of judgement and family values. NEVER….NEVER would I put MY daughter through this debacle. I think it’s great that Bristol is keeping the baby…it will be tough, but she will make it…my mother had me at 17, so yes, I do know what my mother and father went through in order to raise me. Yes, they have been married for 44 years. But for a mother and potential future leader of this country to CHOOSE to bring this upon her daughter on a world stage is completely irresponsible. And you call this good judgement? Heroes? Bah!!!
September 2nd, 2008 at 8:41 am
I am sure the Palin Family is a good family. Bristol pregnancy is a private matter between the Palin Family. That is why I can not believe Gov. Palin is subjecting her daughter to national scrutiny. This is a difficult time for Bristol. She will need her mother now like never before. I can not see how Gov. Palin can be there for Bristol why she traveling around the world taking care of the countries business. Gov Palin should step down. She has too much going on in her personal life (Husband’s DUI, Investigation, Teenage Daughter Pregnant, and Child with Down Syndrome) to adequately focus on the Country business.
September 2nd, 2008 at 8:54 am
People are talking about how Palins daughters pregnancy may turn for the better because it backs her positions on abortion and how she is pro-life. What about the father in this pregnancy? Are his views the same or, do his views not matter because of the pollitics involved. That is that Palin is running for the vice presidancy and that the fathers opinions and those of his family don’t matter because it could hurt McCain’s Chances? Does this kid even realy want to marry Bristol?
September 2nd, 2008 at 9:12 am
If Obama was born in Hawaii, why is the Democratic Party being sued by an Attorney who has apparently discovered other facts.
September 2nd, 2008 at 9:12 am
To Republican Hypocracy
Sir, you totally do not get it. The election will be in 2 months plus a day. A baby will last forever.
Obviously Bristol was asked. And obviously she has the grit to weather the storm of media slurs. But in the end, it isn’t about her and her choices, it is about what is best for the country. She must believe her mother has what takes to be a great leader.
I thought it was terrible for Sarah Palin to trot her daughter on stage in Dayton, knowing the blowback, until I realized that they don’t see next 61 days (+/-), they see the next 61 years+, they see the next 8 years.
So yes, I do think McCain got it right, on so many levels it is mind boggling. He showed me a depth of character that he had when he didn’t come home from torture, but that was long long age. He isn’t going to back away from A BABY because it hurts him now.
Do I think the Clintons would choose to save face? I think Hilliary would drag Chelsea kicking and screaming to make a “choice” if she thought it would lose her votes, or even a single vote.
Sometimes people choose because it is the best thing for their immediate future, and that is very near sighted. However, when you pull the plug on life, you pull the plug on all the lives that family tree would ever make. I never said that everyone pro-choice has abortions.
Sir, I was pro-choice for 3 decades. I worked in an OR helping welfare mothers scrape out their problems. I did it because, as a young nursing student, I met a new mother who was clueless about what to do with this thing they sent home with her. One day she couldn’t stand the screaming and took that baby and whacked its’ brains against the wall.
Then one day, a girl came in that was further along than was “legal” in Ohio. The OB didn’t tell me and the chart was doctored but I saw arms and legs and body parts got stuck in the suction curette. That changed my mind.
Don’t jump to conclusions about me and my values and I will give you the same respect.
Most Americans are more complex than that. One little baby from a teenager isn’t going to make their decision in the voting booth.
September 2nd, 2008 at 9:14 am
People, it’s not about daughters or sons or whoever of the candidates. It’s about the fact that Palin is a lier! She’s been lying for a long time. It’s obvious there is something fishy about her and “her” son and her daughter’s pregnancy. American people are entitled to know the truth about a person who can easily be our next president, should something happen to 72-year old McCain!!! (if he gets elected). Thank you media for digging into this story and trying to get the truth out! We can’t just close our eyes and ears and pretend that this is a private story. Not if you are running for VP!!!
September 2nd, 2008 at 9:33 am
“Can someone tell me how effective sex ed classes are in preventing anything.”
Sex education is PROVEN to work much better to lower teen pregancy AND STD’s. Teaching abstinence only is PROVEN not to work. Period. That is the problem with the current situation in several areas. There has been enough time to see whether things actually work as apposed to only deviding us and getting people riled up…
“I do know that this family obviously considered all the implications and made their choices and didn’t decide to do what would have been politically correct.”
And how do you know this? How is this obvious? Gut feeling? Did you “look it into her eyes”? The assumption you make is that Ms. Palin and Mr. Mcain “must” have good judgemnt and are trying to back your way into a scenario where Palins decisions are OK and Mcains are wise.
Amazing denial…
September 2nd, 2008 at 9:42 am
“I finally heard one intelligent remark from Obama and that was that candidates families are off limits. I just wish that CNN would leave the Palin family alone and talk about the issues of the qualifications of both candidates. I am still in a quandry about how Osama can be born in Kenya and still be able to run for the Presidency.
CNN Please get your act together.”
You “talk” about talking about the issues and then immediately throw out stupid ugly slander, and scold CNN?.
You are a zellot and you disgust me.
September 2nd, 2008 at 9:43 am
I can’t help but wonder if Palin’s 17 year old daughter and the father of her unborn child are freely able to decide if they want to marry one another. Do they actually have a choice? Getting married at 17 seems like a punishment. Why can’t the young mother reside with her family and raise her child why must she marry?
September 2nd, 2008 at 9:53 am
“Sarah Palin took on the corruption in her state.”
Not so fast there…
She was “for” the bridge to nowhere before she was against it. She fought “for” all that pork barrel when she was Mayor, and kept the money to boot, though she “said” she sent it back. She headed a commission to get Ted Stevens to not be indicted (didn’t work). She is under investigation for pressuring the police commissioner to fire a brother inlaw trooper that is in an ugly divorce with her sister. The investigation is underway, and she has back peddled twice already after facts came out that didn’t match her accounting. Now there is news of “new” evidence in the form of a recorded phone conversation and several emails.
And how exactly is is this “taking on” corruption in her state? Did you mean taking corruption “ON” the payroll?
September 2nd, 2008 at 9:58 am
“I can’t help but wonder if Palin’s 17 year old daughter and the father of her unborn child are freely able to decide if they want to marry one another. ”
She was 5 months pregnant and is now getting married after her mother announces for VP..
Uhhhhh…. I am pretty sure I know. I hear Karl R. can be pretty pursausive…
September 2nd, 2008 at 10:07 am
Show me this “proof” that sex ed stops anything! I can show you the statistics for over 4 million abortions that are the real proof that it doesn’t make any difference. Sex ed came into force about the same time as abortion so there are less teen out-of-wedlock babies, not less pregnancies.
Your demand that I prove that the Palin family discussed this with their daughter prior to taking her on stage demonstrates a lack of understanding about how loving families treat each other and is as thin as Mr. Obamas’ resume.
Ask yourself why Andrea Mitchell isn’t on a plane to Hawaii right now so she can stick a microphone into the face that typical white grandmother, so she can ask her how she felt when her and Mr. Dunham were informed that their daughter was 3 months pregnant - from a black guy! – from Africa! – who was already married! – and who had children back in Kenya!
Mr. Obama is calling for hands off because his own mothers’ indiscretions will get air time.
So now the left wants to go after the father of the baby. Yeah, if it were one of their own they would be screaming Privacy in the Womb is a constitutional right. Geez, this shows the true colors of people who claim privacy rights and free choice. Bristol gets to choose, with her partner, if and when they marry. Got a problem with that lefties?
September 2nd, 2008 at 10:18 am
“I thought it was terrible for Sarah Palin to trot her daughter on stage in Dayton, knowing the blowback, until I realized that they don’t see next 61 days (+/-), they see the next 61 years+, they see the next 8 years.
So yes, I do think McCain got it right, on so many levels it is mind boggling. He showed me a depth of character that he had when he didn’t come home from torture, but that was long long age.”
Wow… It just goes to show me that you can talk yourself into anything if you suspend reality and try hard enough..
He did all this after meeting with her twice. The first was the middle of last week (the first time he could have known her daughter was pregnant) and the second time he met with her was to offer her the job….. I think that was Thursday? And then he had the time to came up with an 8 year plan, all before Friday? Pahhhlease….
I have another scenario in mind that follows the facts AND Occams razor (the simplest answer is the most likely).
Palin didn’t tell Mcain because she didn’t know. She didn’t know because her daughter didn’t tell her. Mcain didn’t know because Palin didn’t know. After the “quick” announcement, her daughter said, uhhhh… mom I need to tell you something..
I mean come on folks… This is what rreally happens with 17 year olds.. I realy, really, really, feel for her daughter. She is in a bad situation no matter what at this point.
September 2nd, 2008 at 10:20 am
So ive been passionatly following the scandals revolving the campaigns and i have to say its almost like watching days of our lives. It’s interesting. Now the twist to the plot? Sarah Palin’s Unmarried seventeen year old daughter is pregnant! This is what i think: I don’t think john mcain knew about this, in fact, i dont think sarah palin even knew about this. I have nothing to back that but its a thought. Senator Barack Obama has come out publicly asking for suppoerters to stay away from this story because family members don’t count. He better say that and I agree, but….. I have to wonder if governor Palin is against sex ed in schools how does she feel about birth control or plan b for that matter? How is she going to preach abstinence to parents of other teenage daughters of america when it didnt work in her own home?
September 2nd, 2008 at 10:25 am
McCain has made an irresponsible decision to chose Palin to be VP, especially considering he says he knew about the investigation under way, the Down Syndrome baby, and now the pregnancy. Furthermore, I have to question Palin’s decision to run for VP considering all of this. The price for putting career first over family is priceless. The down syndrome baby needs his mom, Bristol also needs her mom and we need a Vice President that is qualified to fullfill his/her role and that of the President in the event the President can not. Its the toughtest position for the country. Is that Sarah Palin? Please think about this. Its not about being mom, grandmother, etc. Its about who we elect for this critical role at a critical time.
September 2nd, 2008 at 10:33 am
“Show me this “proof” that sex ed stops anything!”
No problem.. I thought I would send you a study that I am personally aware of, but thought that you would just start picking this study apart word by word, or attack the study authors, or connect them with some obscure “question” somewhere. Knowing that there is actually allot of “proof” I googled ” sex education statistics” and found this website that links to MANY, MANY university studies showing the proof you request.
http://www.advocatesforyouth.org/publications/factsheet/fssexcur.htm
Yahhh.. I know… univeristies are bastions of left wing “liberals” and “communists” and science isn’t good, etc. etc.
If this doesn’t help you see at least this truth.. I can’t help you.
September 2nd, 2008 at 10:48 am
Dr. Steve,
This is no longer a civil discussion.
People on both sides are making claims that have nothing to do whether or not this will help or hurt the Republican POTUS candidate.
If I have to debate sex ed, well, there might be more boys wearing raincoats when they are “hooking up” but there are more girls with oral STD’s, the real Clinton legacy. Is that what they teach in sex ed? I know Helen Gurly Brown wrote articles about doing it right.
Mr. Obama getting sued by some nut jobs (probably on the right) is despicable. How do we KNOW he was birthed on USA turf? Because he got past Hilliary Clinton in the primaries.
I’ve posted my thoughts, and even revised my thoughts in the light of time. I made the mistake of allowing all additional posts to come into my email box. Can you stop this for me? Honestly, I have a life. I’m not some DU or Kos kid, which seems to be what you are getting here. I’m a granny, and a wife, not a pol sci graduate or professional blogger.
I think I represented myself well so far. But frankly, it is getting tedious and boring.
Can you remove my name from getting the email update to new posts?
Thanks so much.
September 2nd, 2008 at 10:50 am
Has anybody else noticed that even though Gustav has passed, a whole bunch of folks are cancelling appearances at the RNC?
Arnold, Cheney, Bush, etc. and now a keynote from an actor and Lieberman? Jeepers!
Do I see a sinking ship? What was it that jumps from with those?
Digits
September 2nd, 2008 at 11:00 am
To say it’s off the table is to ignore her judgment and capabilities as a person. No one wants to see a young woman in a difficult situation attacked by the media, and now like it or not, Bristol will be the center of controversy during a very difficult time in her life. So this is not a judgment of Bristol, but I think it is a fair question to ask our selves is this the image we want for America. Are our standards really this low? As Vice President, the world will look to them as examples of American life and family values. What does this say to the world? Is this really the best image America has to offer?
I think this also brings in McCain’s decision making ability by picking her as his running mate. The first time she appeared Bristol was covered up by a blanket and her younger brother. This tells me someone was trying to hide something. Hmm?
McCain wants to compare Obama to Paris Hilton and Spears. He’s got Hollywood values, well tell me Mr. Republican, Mr. Family Values, what do you call this situation? McCain who cheated on his wife and now a mother who is in the middle of a family crisis running as VP. What a contradiction? So what’s next Senator McCain, K-Fed,to be named your Secretary of Defense?
The Republicans, over and over again, have brought the private domain into the public spot light with their platform on Family Values. Now all of a sudden they don’t want to talk about their most beloved issue. Maybe because Bristol’s pregnancy points to the failures of their stands on sex education or maybe because it points to the truth, McCain may have experience, but he doesn’t have sound judgment. And that is an issue bigger then some girl’s failure to use protection one night. My grandfather had forty years of experience as a driver, one day he went blinded, now tell me do still want him behind the wheels of a an 18 wheeler? That is the underlining question behind the Palin situation, judgment and capability
September 2nd, 2008 at 11:01 am
WOW!!!
First this: “This is no longer a civil discussion.”
and in the same post this: “If I have to debate sex ed, well, there might be more boys wearing raincoats when they are “hooking up” but there are more girls with oral STD’s, the real Clinton legacy.”
I agree with your first point
PS: Contrary to the elusions you present, and for the record: I am a 56 year old while male business owner and father of 1 daughter and 2 sons. I have a BS in electronic engineering and skipped as much political science as I possibly could. I am an independent voter. I am also on vacation all this week…
September 2nd, 2008 at 11:02 am
I have not been impressed with any of Sarah Palin’s so-called accomplishments and now with this latest revelation, I am even more convinced that she is not qualified to be in the position of Vice President. Her sense of responsibility seems quite lacking given the fact that she chose to enter a high-risk pregnancy at 44 despite having four healthy children; and, now that she has produced a special-needs child, she is willing to abdicate her responsibility to care for that child to others while she traipses around the country campaigning for a job she is woefully inadequate to perform. Perhaps if she had been more responsible in raising the children her 17-year old daughter would not be in this situation. In no way, shape, or form will I support the McCain/Palin ticket. I wonder if she gave any thought to what this campaign would do to her family. It is one thing for the candidate to offer himself up to the scrutiny of the out-of-control media, but quite another to sacrifice her family to it. I also can’t help but wonder how the Republicans would have torn Chelsea Clinton up had she been pregnant out of wedlock? Is it true that Sarah Palin was pregnant when she married Todd?
September 2nd, 2008 at 11:22 am
Prediction: The GOP set Palin up to fail. They count on the current scandals and family demands forcing her to step down. This puts McCain in an advantageous spot - he tried to please the ultra-right-wing conservatives in his constituency but too bad so sad darn it, it didn’t work out. Then he can go ahead and pick Lieberman or Romney or lord knows, even Pawlenty, to please moderate voters who would never go for a McCain/Palin ticket. It’s brilliant strategy and possibly even a punishment for the Repubs Palin crushed in her own state. But that’s a stretch.
September 2nd, 2008 at 11:35 am
Sarah Palin on a scale of accomplishments and inadequates
equal a loss not just for a party but a nation
September 2nd, 2008 at 11:39 am
I am very troubled by the latest developments related especially with Paulin’s teen pregnancy. Despite the fact that no one in the campaign acknowledges it publicly, this is a very sticky issue for many conservative and independents.
I am even more troubled by the positions this religious leaders have taken than Paulin’s teen pregnancy itself!
They would only tarnish the maverick and independent stature for McCain by shilling too hard for Paulin’s poor parenting record.
Paulin and these evangelicals are supposed to represent the new moral values for this country and the young generation. Instead the republican change theme becomes more like an abdication from the values that guided this party for decades.
Just remember the Lynn Spears teen pregnancy outrage or how babies were removed from teen FLDS members just some months ago.
Everyone was up in arms condemning those immoral acts, but today suddenly is not just OK, but also encouraged by the very same fanatical clergy.
I am puzzled by the judgment and values of this kind of leaders and I definitely don’t want them as spiritual mentors or examples for my daughter.
As for Obama he is a loser if he is not hitting her for being a lame parent.
September 2nd, 2008 at 11:39 am
Bottom line; REALLY BAD CHOICE.
If she knew about this? Bad choice on her part. If he knew? Bad choice on his part. If he didn’t know? Even worse… There are reasons people pick seasoned pros for VP. They have the benefit of having been vetted by the people that ran against them, the media, bloggers, etc. and especially over time. A really bad move to have a shotgun wedding (not talking about her daughter) and then find really ugly stuff like this in the closet.
Looks like the storm down south has passed without “to” much memory of Katrina, but the republicans won’t get so lucky with this new storm (or set of storms) bridge, pork, trooper, etc.
I hear the low pressure sucking sound of an implosion in progress
September 2nd, 2008 at 11:50 am
My apologies to everyone. The sword of truth doeth cut both ways.
If Sarah Palins’ stance on sex ed turns off independents, then that is an argument that is legitimate. It reinforces Dr. Steve’s post that she could “hurt a little”.
As to studies done on abstinence…., where in the US educational system is abstinence education as prevalent as sex ed and teaching protection via condoms? There can’t be studies done on this because it was never part of the US system in the same way.
It was, however, part of the Bush program to help stop the spread of AIDS in Africa. And it has worked. Too bad we can’t teach the ABC approach here.
Teaching abstinence doesn’t have to be about just protection, it can also be about making a partner choice, respecting your self and your body, about being ready for a more mature relationship and not about engaging in casual sex. But being in a steady relationship does create the illusion of being safe while increasing the probability of intimacy and the potential for unintended consequences.
I’ve seen posts were people are making all kinds of disparaging remarks about Bristol when they have no foundation in facts. I don’t know so I can’t speak to her choices.
I stand corrected about jumping to conclusions about other posters. Didn’t like it when it was directed at me, shouldn’t do it to others.
September 2nd, 2008 at 11:52 am
Ooops, now we lost Guliani…
No Keynote from Guliani, No Bush, No Cheney, No Arnold. I would really like to be a fly on the wall in the back room meetings right about now.
Does anybody want to be seen there?
September 2nd, 2008 at 11:56 am
This whole thing is a SCAM! John McCain did not select Sarah Palin, Charlie Black, criminal, traitor and lobbyist for John McCain and every criminal illegitimate tyrannical government around the world selected Sarah. Why? To gain access to the rich oil of Alaska and to perpetuate another heist on the American public such as the Sub-prime loan/mortgage scandals. Sarah is a distraction and if elected, she will have the distinction ob being window-dressing because the Big-Boys are going to create a shadow government and pilfer every dime possible. Sarah will be humored and put in a sand box. The line will be to Sarah, “don’t worry your pretty little head about attending meetings, go take care of your children, we understand.” Obviously John McCain has decided that Cindy McCain’s $100 million is not enough, he wants his own millions, and by God he’s going to get it. You and your grandchildren will pay.
September 2nd, 2008 at 11:57 am
Just writing so all you back wood conservatives can understand me. I’m surprised you get internet where you live. So tell me, are you all still sharing a computer with your cousin, I mean wife, I mean cousin.
I guess they do a poor job of teaching us how to spell at Harvard.
September 2nd, 2008 at 12:38 pm
Passions run high. I understand. No trouble.
I do though have to take issue with you on the issues. Please don’t take this as a personal attack. For me this is much more important than you or I.
“It was, however, part of the Bush program to help stop the spread of AIDS in Africa. And it has worked. Too bad we can’t teach the ABC approach here.”
I applaud the work that president Bush has worked on with Aids in Africa. But if I understand your asserion, the ABC approach here isn’t true. We have been preaching abstinence only since 2000. Please look at the link I posted: http://www.advocatesforyouth.org/publications/factsheet/fssexcur.htm
The facts are that teen pregancy and STD’s went down drastically between 1991 and 1997. This coincides with the increase of “complete” sex education during that time. Concentration on absinance only programs began in 2000-2001, and complete education has been on the decline since. Teen prgnancy and STD’s started to level at that time (through 2003) and has gone up since. This also coincides with direct Federal funding of abstinence only programs.
Soo… There IS direct correlation in the studies showing “abstinence only” does not work, and that complete sex education does work, and that was my point in the beginning. I know some people don’t like it. Heck it is awkward for me to deal with. But we MUST buck up and do what works, rather than cling to dogma that doesn’t, both on this issue and others.
Respectfully
Earl
September 2nd, 2008 at 1:08 pm
Man o Man
I guess it is all OK with the GOP now that they are getting married before the baby is born. Uggghhh. I can’t even keep up with all the scandals, and they haven’t even been elected yet.
Sounds like Bush 2.0 to me
September 2nd, 2008 at 1:27 pm
check out lil Bristol drinking perezhilton.com
where was mom? & dad?
September 2nd, 2008 at 1:31 pm
Earl, thanks for the link. I have grandsons who are 11 and 12 now so it won’t be long until their hormones are raging, if not already. I didn’t get a chance to read it, yet, but I promise to keep an open mind. Remember, I didn’t say Absinence Only is the answer. Wasn’t it MLK who said, “Not this or that but this AND that”? You don’t have to be a liberal, or African American, or loc to believe the truth of that.
Let me ask you one question. Is that the most important issue of the day? Is that the issue that will define your vote?
Suddenly, the surge, Iraq, the economy, Iran, Putin, all seem to be off the table.
We can agree to disagree about about whether or not this hurts or helps McCain. If he is deluded or if he is crazy like a fox.
I used to bong the gong and chant OOOMH while cross legged (when I was young enough to get into that position) so I do see the arguments from both reasonable sides. Once I was a young college girl with flowers in her hair and marching to the beat of a different drum so it isn’t like I haven’t been there/done that.
I, Ohio Granny, like this girl. She makes McCain better for me. Others don’t agree.
September 2nd, 2008 at 2:24 pm
In drawing conclusions about sex ed policies, there is plenty of other statistical data out there with which we can come up with some valid conclusions. Drawing conclusions based on Bristol Palin is sloppy at best, and bespeaks a horrible lack of education in effective social sciences research, deductive logic, and plain old good sense.
First off, Alaska does not teach “abstinence only” in its sex ed classes. It teaches abstinence as the most effective form of birth control, which it is; barring immaculate conception, you just don’t get pregnant when you don’t have sex.
Second, we don’t know - and it’s none of our business - whether or not the girl was using birth control that failed. This can and does happen; I have two nephews that I wouldn’t have if birth control was 100% effective. For all we know, she could have been using protection that failed.
And if that’s the case, then the very weak argument that Bristol Palin’s pregnancy is proof positive that abstinence education doesn’t work falls flat on its face. In fact one could very easily argue that the oppositie is true - that the Bristol Palin pregnancy is a salient reminder that birth control is not 100% effective, and that teens should not be taught that there is any such thing as “safe sex”.
The bottom line is that we don’t know the gory details - and we shouldn’t. It’s none of our business. And the truth is, without the details, there’s no way to draw conclusions about the effectiveness of different education policies; and, even with the details, we would be looking at only one case study. One case study can hardly be considered a reasonable representative sample by any stretch of the imagination; no good researcher would accept a conclusion about education policy that was drawn from a single case study.
Before drawing conclusions, we should think through the issue logically, perform pertinent research, and draw conclusions that make sense. You rarely hit the target when you shoot from the hip.
September 2nd, 2008 at 2:32 pm
Ohio Grannie
YES I absolutely agree. AND is a good thing and abstinence should be part of a complete education on sex. Anybody that remebers being young will know that it will not work on some, some times.. I preventing harm is the first goal. if you can do that, most kids will grow up and learn reason over time.
My issue on all of this is judgment. The problem is, we don’t know what issues will come up in the future. we only have current issues. The economy, healthcare, social secuirty, Iraq, Iran, Georgia are all important to me.
For me, hiring a president is much like hiring an employee. I can’t be there with them after the hire and I need them to have good judgment. experience can be important, but it is only valuable as a proxy for judgment, with the idea that judgment will come with it. The end goal however is judgment and that is really important to me.
I am watching CNN as we speak (I have relatives in the gulf) and have just seen a quote from Karl Rove (republican Mcain advisor) as follows:
“The decision to nominate Sarah Palin was not a “governing decision” but rather a “political decision” designed to make inroads with “soft republicans” and those Hillary supporters, male or female that can be gotten by somebody who is a gun-toting hockey-playing woman”. That is them saying it, not me saying it….
If this makes you more likely to vote for Senator Mcain, then… well… OK…. that is why we each get to vote. I hope you stay informed.
All the best to you and your grand kids
Earl
September 2nd, 2008 at 2:42 pm
Extremely well said, Captain D.
Earl, I cringe when family members give me the Democrat talking points, and they cover their ears when I give them my roc views.
But we are all Americans, even if some say Sen. Obama is not, or hate the other candidate. Once a POTUS is elected, it will be our President. None of the candidates, and I mean NONE of the candidates is 100% me.
Let’s make our choice on reason and logic and ideals, as they apply to our right to achieve a common goal of keeping America a leader in the free world.
September 2nd, 2008 at 3:02 pm
Captain D
I had a long response and it just got dumped (twice)somehow so I will truncate…
I wasn’t speaking about sex ed in Alaska or Palin. what I said was that there is considerable evidence that “abstinence only” does not work as well as sex education that includes contraception. I offered a link that had links to reputable studies that show the same, and show the changes that improvments (in teen pregancy and STD’s) that correlates to more sex ed, and got worse as “abstinence only” programs took hold.
I stand by that. If my facts or my logic are wrong, please explain in detail.
Captain D. Quote
“Before drawing conclusions, we should think through the issue logically, perform pertinent research, and draw conclusions that make sense. You rarely hit the target when you shoot from the hip.”
I believe I have done just that.
I knew some of the data, as I have kids and this is important to me as sex ed has changed in the last 8 years. I researched the rest before.. posting. Not to be “cranky” but did you do the same?
Earl
September 2nd, 2008 at 3:11 pm
Ohio Granny,
Again, I am not nor have I ever been a Democrat. When thinking back, I have voted R much more for prez than D (although it doesn’t feel that way) since I vote on the issues and haven’t paid to much attention to the party in the past. Heck I ain’t even liberal!!! I would consider myself a middle of the road conservative..
I do agree that in the end, we all have to live with this decision, hence my somehow drifting to this site… and posting. I started out on CNN
I wonder if anybody elses mind gets changed at this kind of thing.. I have however come up with my decision (at least for now) so I guess it hepled. Good luck
Earl
PS: What is a POTUS?
September 2nd, 2008 at 3:15 pm
Earl,
The site had some technical difficulties in the last hour, and that may be why you had the trouble noted.
And FYI, POTUS stands for “President of the United States.”
September 2nd, 2008 at 6:19 pm
Earl,
I wasn’t really trying to make a point one way or the other on sex ed, and what should be emphasized or not emphasized.
What I was trying to highlight is that one case study - Bristol Palin - does not prove anything, one way or the other, especially when we don’t know (and, as I have said again and again, it’s none of our business) about the details.
It is inappropriate to say, for example, that Bristol Palin’s pregnancy is proof of abstinence ed working or not working. If one wants to cite evidence one way or the other, fine, it’s all good to me, as long as it’s a sample size larger than 1; to be perfectly honest I don’t really care one way or the other about the issue. I just don’t think it’s either logical or reasonable to take this one kid and her circumstances and say “AHA! LOOK! ______ doesn’t work!” And that’s exactly what people are doing. They’re saying “Look! Because of this one kid, we have proof that abstinence ed doesn’t work.”
It’s especially inappropriate, as I mentioned, given the lack of information about her case. Maybe she did use birth control and it failed. Would it be appropriate to draw a conclusion based on that? I have a nephew who was conceived in spite of two methods; is he, by himself, one kid, proof that contraception does not work?
Of course not.
Therefore, Bristol Palin is not proof that abstince ed does not work. A sample size of 1 means absolutely nothing.
Beyond that - it’s just indecent of us to pry into the details of a teenage girl’s life. I wanted to say that there is plenty of other, valid data out there with which we can draw conclusions about sex ed. Bristol Palin is utterly irrelevant and should be left out of the conversation.
September 2nd, 2008 at 9:58 pm
Captain D
Ok I get that, and I agree. I really feel sorry for this young girl. I do however, think it is fair to ask the questions about whether it shows good judgment, knowing that your 17 year old daughter is pregnant, and knowing that this will put her through hell, still accepting this position.
I also believe it is fair to question the judgment of John Mcain, in choosing her after two meetings, apparently knowing this, and an the existance of an ongoing investigation. I have heard the talking points, she really does have experience, she is against corruption, etc. but come on… REALLY? This is the best person we can get?
I think it is fair to think of the facts that John is 72 and will be the oldest president if elected. Her nomination and experience is very pertinent in that regard.
Actually, I have recently made my decision (as you may have noticed) so I won’t bore you anymore… Good luck
Earl
September 3rd, 2008 at 12:19 am
Earl…
From Brian Alexander of MSNBC:
“If we want to talk about sex and politics, how about talking about whether or not the candidates defend comprehensive sex education, or favor abstinence-only sex education? Data has debunked the abstinence-only approach as wishful thinking. Texas, for example, which strongly endorses abstinence-only, and demands parental consent before teenagers can get contraception, leads the nation in its rate of teen pregnancies, dropping only by 19 percent from 1991 to 2004 while the rest of country dropped by over 30 percent.
Meanwhile in California, where comprehensive sex-education is mandatory in public schools, the teen pregnancy rate dropped by 47 percent.
That’s what matters. It is none of my business that Bristol Palin is pregnant or what sexual prescriptions Sarah Palin chooses in her own household. It is my business what prescriptions McCain-Palin and Obama-Biden want to give me.”
Not like the truth will matter to the right wing…
September 3rd, 2008 at 10:55 am
The federal government doesn’t currently give such prescriptions anyway. It is a matter for states to set the curriculum in their schools, and as long as we don’t have a national curriculum (which is not on the immediate horizon) it doesn’t matter much what the president thinks about sex education. He’s not the one writing the curriculum.
As a matter of constitutionality, states should have the right to set their own curriculums; the constitution does not empower the federal government to do this, and as such it is clearly within the province of the states to do so.
September 3rd, 2008 at 12:42 pm
It seems to me that Gov. Palin has put her career above everything she stands for. If family values are a priority then, how can she accept the Vp Nomination while knowing full well that her daughter will be dragged through the mud?
The idea that it is good that the child “chose” to keep her baby? Get real! She is 17. An abortion is a medical procedure. She probably would need a parent’s permission to acquire one. This parent could never do that and maintain her career goals.
I, too, had a child at 18 and married the father. That was what was done back in my day. I was embarrassed and shamed in my community. I’m glad it wasn’t broadcast all over the world. Maybe, this girl and young man had planned to marry and have this child. But, now, who knows if they were or did Mama force the issue and give orders as to what would and would not happen?
September 3rd, 2008 at 1:45 pm
Captain D
“it doesn’t matter much what the president thinks about sex education. He’s not the one writing the curriculum.”
Couldn’t disagree more.. Yes, I completely agree that “constitutionaly” the states set their own curriculums, and the constitution does not empower the federal government to do that, but the presidency has, as Teddy Rosevelt put it “A Bully Pulpit” and sets the tone for the nation, and in this case has pushed their agenda without cease, including having the Feds pay the states for these programs.
Since Bush’s election, they have pushed “abstinence only” religion based programs to the states relentlessly, and also approved Federal funding of these programs for the states (for the first time in our history). States that had never adopted these concepts (much less these programs) in the past(including Alaska) have adopted these programs now, due at least in part to the free money that comes with them from the federal government.
So, it is all about having free advertising and having the Federal Governemnt (all of us) pay for a particular right wing agenda
All this in spite of the fact that these programs have been proven not to work (but that puts us back to where we began).
Earl
September 3rd, 2008 at 1:46 pm
Digits -
If you’re going to compare states to one another and use the metric of how much they decreased the teen pregnancy rate, it’s important to note not only how mucht the rate decreased, but what the starting points were, and what those reductions amount to.
Your ideal of California is barely better than the abysmal Texas you cited. California’s rate is 96, compared with 101 for Texas, as of last year.
What that means to your statistics about California’s drastic reduction compared to Texas is that California had a higher incidence of teenage pregnancy in the first place.
That sort of thing is important when you do statistical analysis and try to arrive at conclusions based on it. Deviations can be caused by a number of factors. When you have one data set (Califorina) starting at a different place from another (Texas) and ending in roughly the same place after implementation of policy _______ (insert your choice of sex ed program here) it becomes difficult to make a comparison of one data set to the other. Establishing causal links between policies and data is even more problematic.
Just to throw it out there, Alaska’s incidence is in the 70’s.
September 3rd, 2008 at 2:16 pm
If you look, I was simply quoting an article from MSNBC.
If you would like to talk about the statistics behind it Absolutely! and you have made my point for me. Yes, it was worse in my state BEFORE comprehensive sex education. It has gone down in a huge way “SINCE” comprehensive sex education. I am not in competition with Alaska. if you study these things, there is also a direct correlation of teen prgnancy to population density, regardless of programs. So if you are really interested in the truth, the best way is to compare a location to itself when the programs change. That is exactly what that article did, and that is what the studies do.
And for the record, if you look at the data on a graph over time correlated to the changes in the programs, it becomes even more clear what works and what doesn’t. The amount of data is huge, and it tells the same story everywhere you look. All you have to do is look with an open mind.
If you can’t see that, then you have your mind made before starting, and I can’t help you.